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| From: jason |
1/08/00
10:26:23
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| Subject: Accents |
post id:
108655
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I was driving to work this
morning, listening to JJJ, there is a new French band being played, they
sounded a bit like the Eagles. I remembered a comment when the Beatles
'invaded' America, someone said that they weren't from England, because
they sang with an American accent. Why is it that most singers don't sing
with an accent?
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| From: DV
(Avatar) |
1/08/00
10:30:57
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
108659
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I disagree, jason. Most singers
do sing with an accent: a bland American accent.
I suspect that the
reason is that North America contains the biggest market for English
speaking records.
There are a few bands out their who sing with
their own accents: Jebediah, Blur, and of course the
Proclaimers.
The accent used in Soul and Blues seems to be
quite distinct: people sing "Bay-bear" instead of "baby", even though
hardly anyone talks like that in real life.
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| From: Carmel ® |
1/08/00
10:35:03
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
108662
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Walking 500 miles as we
speak... but not necessarily to be the man who...
DV, you are
contagious....
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| From: jason |
1/08/00
10:39:29
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
108666
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I agree, there are a few out
there. It puzzled me that some-one like John Lennon, who had a
Liverpudlian accent, or that french band this morning (anybody know the
name?), both those accents are quite distinctive, and yet it doesn't come
through in the music. I was thinking that it may have something to do with
the tempo, or beat, they pronounce the words to fit in with the song, ie
faster, slower, etc, and this creates a 'sameness' with alot of
singers.
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| From: Cerian ® |
1/08/00
10:41:49
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
108668
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No DV's right - it's bloody
fashionable to sing with an Amercan accent! A big pet hate...
Pogues
don't, or how about Cerys from
Catatonia........
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| From: Carmel ® |
1/08/00
10:43:40
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
108669
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i think it has something to do
with the fact that the part of your brain used for singing is different to
the bit used for talking (which is why not everyone can see in tune, but
almost everyone can talk).
I suspect that the 'singing bit' is not
programmed with an accent, and hence it doesn't come through...
I
vaguely recall hereing this when I was younger, but I can't recall the
source....
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| From: DV
(Avatar) |
1/08/00
10:54:02
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
108675
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I suspect that
the 'singing bit' is not programmed with an accent, and hence it doesn't
come through...
I'm going to pick a fight with
Carmel again. In the event of my death, please give my avatar status to
DigitalInflammation1984.
It is impossible to sing or speak English
without an accent. People are programmed to sing with an accent, by
listening to popular music etc, and the language they tend to sing with is
a North American accent of some
kind.
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| From: jason |
1/08/00
10:57:27
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
108676
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DV:
Is that a bit like when
Aussies go over the Japan and teach English, they (The Japanese) learn to
speak with an Aussie accent?
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| From: Cerian ® |
1/08/00
10:59:30
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
108677
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yep... or US, if it happens to be
an American doing the teaching, or English...
etc
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| From: Alan™ ® |
1/08/00
11:01:50
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
108680
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A friend of mine from (East)
Germany used to sing occassionally but was the sound mixer for a german
band, that played Irish music, I don't think any of them spoke english
fluently. There accents were not American, I'm not even sure it was Irish
or English. Strange accent but they were having fun, which is all that
counts.
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| From: Carmel ® |
1/08/00
11:18:23
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
108684
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ooo DV you
are game, what with the photo comments and now this....
As I said,
I was kinda guess, and kinda relying on sketchy memory. But I'm fairly
sure that most english singers tend not to use any descernable accent.
It's certainly not American, for the most part (there is always an
exception).
I am also fairly sure that song is processed
differently to talking...
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| From: littleWoz |
1/08/00
11:21:35
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
108685
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This is strange, accents are a
really funny thing. My fater was born in Germany and came to Aus when he
was 3, although he first learnt to speak German he now has no recolection
of it and only speaks with an Accent when he's drunk (and it's not a
merric & Rosso style fake accent).
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| From: Alan™ ® |
1/08/00
11:25:23
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
108687
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Sound like a certain female on
this forum, but in her case it's an American
accent.
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| From: DV
(Avatar) |
1/08/00
11:26:34
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
108688
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One's accent is made up of the
particular quality of the vowel sounds (and to a lesser extent, the
consonsant sounds) one uses to represent to particular phonemes. If they
are using vowels, they are singing with some accent, whether they like it
or not.
Brits and Aussies tend, for instance, to use the "ah" sound
to represent the short "o" when singing, in mimicry of the Americans. e.g.
haht instead of hot etc.
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| From: Cerian ® |
1/08/00
15:13:46
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
108867
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Carmel, have to agree with DV
here, most UK pop singers definitely sing with a discernible American
accent......
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| From: sera |
1/08/00
16:13:24
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
108896
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I do know that to sing certain
notes in tune, the singer needs to hold their mouth in a particular way,
or the note will sound out of tune. This is especially the case with
higher notes.
If you listen carefully to most professional (e.g.
opera or musical theatre) singers, they all pronounce words quite
strangely. This is to make sure that the words are all in tune, and also
to ensure the word is understandable. For example, they overemphasise the
ends of words like 'That' and 'dog' so that the word is clear, while 's'
sounds are a lot quieter than in normal
speech.
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| From: sam |
1/08/00
16:18:59
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
108897
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One of my old french teachers had
been taught french by his teacher who was Russian, and had learnt french
off a Belgian. Needless to say, it was a slightly misplaced accent. :)
(although I never picked it up, as the teacher changed in
VCE)
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| From: steve
(Avatar) |
1/08/00
16:39:38
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
108908
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As Daryn says, most of one's
accent is in the vowels. Singing is very different from speech and vowels
are held longer than they would be otherwise. Any vowel can be sung but
some just sound better than others when drawn out. "Love" is a classic
example. If you stretch it, it tends to come out as "luuurrve" rather than
"luv".
Singers like John Williamson consciously sing with an
Australian accent but most Australian country singers will sing with an
American accent. - which annoys me.
Opera singers are usually
singing in Italian, French or German and find it reasonably easy to sing
the vowels correctly but they all have language training so that they get
them right.
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| From: Rooster ® |
1/08/00
18:30:43
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
108953
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Golden Earring had a hit with
'Radar Love' about 1974. I often heard that the band was from Europe and
that they could barely manage an English phrase, let alone compose lyrics.
Fact? Urban myth?
(They sounded 'a bit' American, to
me).
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| From: spud(adonai) ® |
1/08/00
18:39:27
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
108956
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Regurgitator have aussie accents
when singing.
sonicanimation too, Cold Chiesl, Ian Moss
(rememebrs Tucker's Daughter) Kylie Minogue, S2S, Turnstyle, Testeagles
all sing with what i would call aussie accents.
I don't think the
accent is american maybe just neutral. It may be just sounds american, I
but i don't even think that. Try talking normally, it would be very hard
to talk normal while singing, your voice has to either get faster, change
tone etc.. to fit the song.
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| From: Cam ® |
1/08/00
21:54:00
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
109058
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Ceris from Catatonia! Now *she*
just *might* make me change teams!
But then DV mentioned Damon
Albarn (who goes out of his way to sing with a pommy accent), and I went
weak at the knees and forgot about
Ceris.
:o)
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| From: AstRoboY ® |
1/08/00
22:00:47
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
109067
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You notice that country artists
in Oz try on that Yanky twang,perhaps that's why in general it's so
nauseating.
BTW the Beatles never sounded a Yanky accent to my
ears.
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| From: DV
(Avatar) |
1/08/00
22:05:55
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
109070
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Beatles, in my view, were best
described as Mid-Atlantic. Still a bit of the Liver, but with some
American traits (like singing "can't" to rhyme with "pant" rather than
"aunt".)
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| From: Alan² |
1/08/00
22:08:32
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
109071
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I always used to think that
people did sing in an American accent. I have since noticed this is not
entirely so. In the case of the Beatles, they do say a few words that
sound like American pronounciations, but this is just because the regional
dialect (in this case Lillipudlian) uses these
pronunciations.
Also, if you listen carefully, you WILL hear the
Beatles pronouncing the "g" sound on the ends of their
words.
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| From: Carmel ® |
2/08/00
7:54:27
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
109172
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Carmel, have to
agree with DV here, most UK pop singers definitely sing with a discernible
American
accent....
:)
It's not any american
accent i've ever heard! I think that perhaps it's a case of the majority
of popular music comes from the US, so people assume that the accent
(which I maintain is a alck of accent) is american. The thing is, there
are lots of types of american accents (texan, califorian,new yorker,
southner, northern, canadian, etc). When you say american accent, which do
you mean???? I don't think that accent your on UK singers is similar to
any of thoseAmerican accents!
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| From: DV
(Avatar) |
2/08/00
23:48:14
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
109650
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Since you ask, I would say that
most sing with a rather bland, North-Eastern USA accent.
The
American-ness of it is in the vowels, like the two examples I gave before:
pronouncing the short "o" with an "ah" sound, the short "u" with a short
"er" sound, the pronunciation of the final "r"s (e.g. the two "r"s in
barter, which are not pronounced in UK, Oz and other civilised places, the
pronunciation of "can't" as though it rhymes with "pant" and not "aunt",
etc, etc, etc..all very distinctive American traits.
I suspect the
reason that you hear it as "without an accent" is that you spent a long
time in that place. There is, I maintain, no sch thing as singing or
speaking without an accent: your accent is the particular set of sounds
you use to represent the phonemes.
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| From: Carmel ® |
3/08/00
8:32:29
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
109698
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pronunciation of
"can't" as though it rhymes with "pant" and not "aunt"
um,
on Planet Carmel, all three rhyme.....
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| From: Cerian ® |
3/08/00
9:40:39
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
109728
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I think that
perhaps it's a case of the majority of popular music comes
from the US,
so people assume that the accent (which I maintain is a alck of accent) is
american. The thing is, there
are lots of types of american accents
(texan, califorian,new yorker, southner, northern, canadian, etc). When
you say
american accent, which do you mean????
Majority
of popular music comes from US??????
At least two thirds of the stuff
on our shelves is British....
:-)
Obviously there are loads of
American dialects, but I would say most non-American singers, wouldn't
recognise the various subtle, differences, and just aim for a 'standard'
American accent.
Half of them don't even know they are doing it....
Then of course there are the hip-hoppers, the rappers, who all do it most
definitely on purpose, and attempt to emulate a NYC accent.....
There
is a big difference between singing in your own voice, or singing with a
different country's accent.
You have a point when you mention the
majority of popular music........
Obviously your singing accent may be
influenced by the bands/singers you listen to. If you are going around
singing songs from your favourite musos, and they happen to be American,
then you go on and become a singer yourself, then you may well sing in a
US accent without even realising..... or you may find it difficult to find
your own voice.
Let's face it, a huge amount, probably the majority, of
pop singers, have never had any
training....
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| From: DV
(Avatar) |
3/08/00
11:08:47
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
109795
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Yes, I see.
I mean they
pronounce "can't" with the short "a" sound found in "cat", rather than the
long "ah" sound found in "lager".
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| From: spud(adonai) ® |
3/08/00
22:27:40
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
110262
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Carmel how?
Kant, pant,
ant (is this how you say aunt?)
carn't and aunt fit , pant doesn't.
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| From: steve
(Avatar) |
4/08/00
6:05:25
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| Subject: re: Accents |
post id:
110340
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While there are four major
accents in the USA and umpteen minor ones all of them have fewer vowels
that "standard" English. I have pointed out before that to most Americans
"father" "mother" and "bother" all rhyme. We impose our own pronunciation
on American words and wonder why they spell "mum" with an "o" - "Mom". The
reason is that to them "ma'am", "mom" and "mum" sound exactly the same.
They do not pronounce "mom" as we would. If you want to imitate an
American accent, coalescing those three vowels into one is a good start.
If you do it while singing, and a lot of people do, it marks the singer as
singing with an American accent.
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