From: Daryn Voss 28/06/99 20:30:27 Subject: Cold Fusion post id: 20736 "Hi." "Hello, how are you?" "I'm okay. Where are you off to?" "The zoo." "Why would you want to go to the zoo?" "I thought I'd go to see the elephants." "Funny you should mention that. I've come up with something that means you won't have to go to the zoo anymore!" (pulls matchbox out of pocket) "I see, and what have you come up with?" "This! I can keep an elephant in here!" "I don't think so." "No, really! I've got an elephant in here right now." "May I see it?" "No, I'm afraid it might get away." "Have you seen it?" "Well, no, I just found this over there, but listen!" (shakes matchbox) "Hear that?" "No." "Listen harder!" (shakes matchbox really hard) "Okay, yes, I heard something then. There is certainly something in there." "So aren't you interested to know what is in there?" "Well, yes, now that you've held me up for so long, I am." "So, you have no idea what is in here?" "None whatsoever." "So for all you know, it could be an elephant!" "Look, just because I don't know what it is, that doesn't mean I can't list some things that it can't be. Like, it can't be a black hole, because you'd have been sucked into it by now. It can't be smoke, because smoke doesn't make a rattling noise like that. Also, it can't be an elephant, because an elephant could never fit in a matchbox, and because you would not be able to support an elephant's weight. I am curious to know what's in there. It might be something very interesting and wonderful, but I can tell you it isn't an elephant." "But think! If I make more of these devices, we could save tens of millions of dollars that are currently wasted on maintaining zoos. We could bring wildlife into people's homes. Wouldn't that be wonderful?" "Yes, but the fact that it would be wonderful doesn't make it so." "You've been got at by the zookeeping establishment!" "As you wish. Goodbye now. I'll bring back some peanuts for you both." From: Bill Sherwood 28/06/99 23:44:43 Subject: re: Cold Fusion post id: 20753 Uh-huh .... ignorant and proud of it. 'Tis very strange behavior for people supposedly with a fair mind. You've made no effort whatsoever to check the current state of the Cold Fusion situation, and yet you base your entire views on ten year old experiments ???? I'd also still like an answer from whoever I wrote to, Daryn, I think, to answer me how there are experiments in progress for the last few years that have *clearly* show excess energy production. He replied that I should answer where all the neutrons, etc were, when they weren't being detected - But I notice that he *didn't* answer the question. Like I said, gents, I'm not a scientist by trade, but there *are* experiments that're clearly producing excess energy - So if you want to get an answer from a scientist, ask one. There's a link or two on the Cold Fusion home page. *I'm* certainly not scared to ask them ... Whether or not it's by some sort of so-called cold fusion remains to be seen, but there are results being obtained that cannot be denied. Bill S. From: Daryn Voss 29/06/99 0:39:59 Subject: re: Cold Fusion post id: 20755 Bill, you have hit the nail on the head, parallelling my fictional conversation exactly. You're right! I don't know where the small amount of excess energy is coming from. It isn't being detected in all of the experiments, so I might suspect it is an experimental error. Even if it is a genuine effect, I might suspect that it is a chemical reaction of some kind, but you're right, I can't possibly be sure what is causing it. But I don't need to know exactly what is causing the effect to say with absolute confidence that it isn't nuclear fusion. Big enough to fit in matchbox + Light enough for a person to carry => Not Elephant. No gamma radiation + no fusion products => Not Nuclear Fusion. I could just as easily say: since no-one is able to account for it yet, it must be tidal energy. Someone might say to me, "But Daryn, don't be silly. The tidal effects across such a small object would be negligible." And I would reply, "Well, if it isn't a tidal effect, how do you explain it?" The effect in question may well turn out to be genuine. If so, the explanation for the phenomenon would be very interesting. Who knows, it might one day turn out to have commercial applications, so it is not necessarily foolish to keep investigating it. But there is no more reason to think that it is nuclear fusion than that it is tidal power, (and there is no reason at all to think that.) I have no reason in the world to believe that the proponent of cold fusion are frauds, or crackpots, or anything like that. I just can't see what it is that is making them so sure that the effect that is sometimes witnessed is nuclear fusion. Thank you for providing the link to the Free Energy site. I did read some of the articles. I even cut and pasted a section to this site. The only thing that made me sure that it was not a balanced, scientific site was that there was no mention at all of the fact that most people who have tried the experiment have found no effect. If the FE site had mentioned it and offered an explanation, (eg that the other people's equipment was insufficiently sensitive) it might have been okay. I hope the research being carried out on this thermo effect turns into something the whole world benefits from, but unless researchers start with a viewpoint of curious skepticism (i.e. "let's see if we can use all the evidence to work out what is causing it" instead of "It's fusion - prove us wrong") then they can be led astray by their own very well-meaning desires and ambitions. From: Bill Sherwood 29/06/99 9:35:11 Subject: re: Cold Fusion post id: 20773 Thanks, Daryn - I'd like to send you a magazine, as they contain a *lot* more info on what's going on than the web site does. As for people not getting good results, I'd like to think of it as the classic scientific test, ie, you must be able to repeat an experiment ad-infinitum without failure for it to be proved. I figure the reverse applies in this case, ie, there's no doubt been a large amount of failures, but also some pretty good *successes.* The scientists that conduct these expetiments are *very* aware that they need to be extremely accurate and careful with the data they obtain. So with the data and results that are being obtained, there is something odd with this area of physics (chemistry??) that we don't understand or know about. I'd have to agree that it may never be able to be used as a useful power source, as it may end up being only able to produce relatively tiny amounts of excess energy, but none the less the effect is there right now. As for me. I'm a pilot with no formal science background, but I'm rather enthusiastic to say the least. I try to keep up with the latest developements where I can, and so I'm aware of such beasts as quarks, (up, down, top, bottom, strange, charmed, and their 'colours') the very, very large scale of the universe and the very, very small. So, while I don't understand a lot of what the magazine's tests show, I have a reasonable 'bulls**t' detector, and I'm quite happy that there are odd devices being investigated that are producing excess energy. Gimme an email and I'll send you a magazine, though make it fast, as I'm leaving for overseas for a few weeks early tomorrow. Bill S.