| From: pete | 21/05/99
14:30:59 |
| Subject: chilli | post id:
13144 |
| I visited an acupuncturist a
while back, for a chipped bone in my hand, after becoming a pin cushion
for a while the acupuncturist suggested that I make a mix of fresh
chilli's mashed up and mixed in petroleum jelly. She states that the
chilli increases healing, therefore reduces healing time. Is this
proveable? (I tried it and it seemed to take next to no time to
heal) Or is the reduced healing time a result of the acupuncture? or both? | |
| From: Horace | 21/05/99
15:17:30 |
| Subject: re: chilli | post id:
13158 |
| Yes, it is provable. Has it been
proved? Probably not! You get 2 groups of people and break some of their
bones. Then use the chilli mixture on one group and a compound that looks,
smells and feels likes chilli on the other group. You tell both groups the
same information. Then you time how long it took bones to heal. I wouldn't be supprised if it does accelerate healing a bit. The body might react to the chilli which may cause a bigger healing in the region of the bone. (It doesn't sound quite as bogus as iridology.) The reason why these practitioners prescribe these treatments is mainly to make the patient feel more comfortable that they ARE being treated. In reality (provided there are no other complications) these things just need time. Besides this sort of thing wont hurt (unless you touch your eyes or mouth) but these people do tend to be a little optimistic about their treatments. | |
| From: sam | 21/05/99
15:23:15 |
| Subject: re: chilli | post id:
13164 |
| didn't he go to see an
acupuncturist - I thought that was based on the scientific principle of
the body's release of endorphins? Is this right? As I understood it, the
body normally releases endorphins as a natural pain killer similar in
effect to morphine, and in sticking needles into someone, isn't meant to
stimulate the release of this
chemical? | |
| From: pete | 21/05/99
15:25:48 |
| Subject: re: chilli | post id:
13165 |
| thanks Horace, I thought that it may have something to do with the Chilli increasing the blood flow around the injury, and this promotes the healing | |
| From: Horace | 21/05/99
15:28:27 |
| Subject: re: chilli | post id:
13166 |
| I think recent studies have shown
this (or something like what you describe). But acupuncture as practised by acupuncturists uses an entirely different set of theory. It talks of the body's life force which they call "qui" or something and that all the acupunture points are joined by meridians. And it's all supported by 4000 years (or whatever) of chinese anecdotal evidence. | |
| From: pete | 21/05/99
15:36:12 |
| Subject: re: chilli | post id:
13170 |
| I have also had acupuncture on a
knee injury, Immeadiately after the needles where removed, I have less
pain and greater range of movement in the knee. The principles of Qui or Chi or qi or whatever you want to call it, as I understand it, is that the body has all these natural energy lines that can become blocked by injury or disease and the needles stimulate the blockage to allow the body to heal itself. Sounds a lot like the iridology doesn't it. | |
| From: sam | 21/05/99
15:37:18 |
| Subject: re: chilli | post id:
13171 |
| Ahh... anecdotal evidence...
great stuff that... :) I guess it doesn't matter how they think it works -
regardless we know that the method they use does have a degree of credit
to it, however they believe they achieve it...
:) | |
| From: Sue | 21/05/99
19:41:13 |
| Subject: re: chilli | post id:
13252 |
| Interesting thing related to the
idea of chilli accelerating healing, possibly by setting up tissue
irritation, thus increasing blood flow / immune system activity in local
area: We had a horse once with a golfball-sized carcinoma near the eye, which was surgically removed but grew back because it had already spread into the lacrimal duct. Another pessimistic attempt at surgery was made, but it's basically impossible to physically get all the cancer cells out of that kind of duct! Predictably, the carcinoma grew back. Its size was increasing fast. The horse looked like it had very poor odds! So my brother (a veterinarian) decided to use it as a guinea-pig for a new idea he'd heard about (this was in the late 80s) - injecting tuberculosis vaccine into such tumours. The idea was that the vaccine would set up a strong local immune response which would hopefully also alert the immune system to the presence of cancer cells in the area it was coming to clean up the attenuated microbes in! Anyway...the carcinoma disappeared within a month and never came back. Sample size was only 1, but it was very interesting indeed. | |
| From: clare | 21/05/99
22:23:00 |
| Subject: re: chilli | post id:
13277 |
| since chillis (especially freshly
mashed up ones) are terribly hot - the warmth produced would promote blood
flow to the damaged area and help faster healing. It is probably the same
principle behind using a infra-red lamp or sports linament on sporting
injuries. | |
| From: clare | 21/05/99
22:23:41 |
| Subject: re: chilli | post id:
13279 |
| since chillis (especially freshly
mashed up ones) are terribly hot - the warmth produced would promote blood
flow to the damaged area and help faster healing. It is probably the same
principle behind using a infra-red lamp or sports linament on sporting
injuries. | |
| From: jp | 21/05/99
23:55:04 |
| Subject: re: chilli | post id:
13293 |
| Traditional Chinese medical
theory says that the acupoints sit along lines, or channels, known as
meridians. Your body's natural energy, known as ch'i, circulates around
the meridians. Pain or other problems develop when this natural energy
circulation is blocked. The acupuncturist, by needling or otherwise
stimulating these points, is said to be able to unblock the flow of
energy, which allows the body to heal the problem itself. Attempts to reconcile acupuncture theory with modern medicine have provided few answers. No substance that represents ch'i has been identified, and the meridian channels have no physical basis. Other researchers have attempted to define the effect that acupuncture has upon the body, and have put forward various theories. Some say that acupuncture works on the nervous system, creating an effect similar to the gate theory, in which nerve signals carrying the pain sensations cannot pass through the spinal cord in great numbers. This decreases the perception of pain. Others feel that acupuncture may somehow cause the body to release endorphins, while others have postulated that it somehow regulates the flow of the body's natural chemical electricity. However, when all the evidence has been sifted and examined, we still do not have any clear understanding of how acupuncture works. Nevertheless, in the end, the most important question to you is 'does it work'? Numerous studies have been undertaken to answer this question, and they are united on only one point: they are contradictory. Some studies show that acupuncture borders on miraculous, while other research shows that acupuncture does nothing at all. Although it is widely used, the medico-scientific jury is still out on the true effectiveness of acupuncture. In a wide ranging USA government review on back pain treatments, a eminent panel examined twenty-four studies that looked at the effect of acupuncture on lower back pain. Many of these studies found that patients who received acupuncture treatment for lower back pain fared better than those who did not. For some people, this finding is the end of the argument. Acupuncture works. Period. However, the panel reviewed other studies that cast doubt over these findings. For example, some researchers compared patients who had correctly-applied acupuncture to a control group who received 'placebo' acupuncture, where the needles were deliberately placed in the wrong spot. Of course, neither group was aware of whether their treatment was correct or not. In these studies, no significant difference was found in the recovery rates or pain levels of either group, suggesting that much of the power of acupuncture is due to the placebo effect. So as far as acupuncture as a treatment goes, nothing is certain. Even if you find that it helps to temporarily relieve your pain, you would be foolish to rely on acupuncture alone. Other techniques, such as exercise, drugs, relaxation, or joint mobilisation, may still be necessary or useful for you to make a full and permanent recovery. I'd like to briefly mention one other point. Many practitioners of acupuncture, including medical doctors and other health practitioners, have very minimal training in acupuncture. Some of them may have simply studied a book on the subject, before proudly erecting a sign in their waiting room. As no regulations currently exist to control the administration of acupuncture, so you should ensure that your therapist is accredited with a relevant acupuncture association. Alternatively, you could save your money and not go at all. "If you have acupuncture, you'll be right in seven days. If not, it will take a week." | |
| From: wintermute | 22/05/99
0:09:45 |
| Subject: re: chilli | post id:
13295 |
| All through this thread I have
had the horrible vision of applying chilli to skin already raw from
acupuncture...owww. | |
| From: steve | 22/05/99
8:38:23 |
| Subject: re: chilli | post id:
13395 |
| While acupuncture might be 4000
years old, the use of chilli in acupuncture must be somewhat younger.
Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but chilli, like tomatoes, potatoes,
capsicums, tobacco, corn and turkeys all come from the new world, and
would have been unknown to the Chinese til a few centuries
ago. | |
| From: sam | 22/05/99
9:04:48 |
| Subject: re: chilli | post id:
13400 |
| Yes, well I wouldn't know about
chilli - first time I've ever heard of that use, but if it works, hey, why
not? :) | |