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| From: Phobophilia |
20/01/2002
22:01:06
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| Subject: Balls and brass
monkeys... |
post id:
582585
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OK, you've probably all heard the
old story of the origins of the expression "cold enough to freeze the
balls of a brass monkey."
In case you haven't, here's a brief
summary:
Old ships with pyramid-shaped stacks of canon balls. On really
cold days the balls froze, cracked and fell of the stacks.
Anyway,
I seem to remember seeing an experiment in high school involving a steel
ball and liquid nitrogen that showed the ball SHRANK when it got
cold.
Does this mean the old story is fallacious or
not?
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This forum is un-moderated. The views and opinions expressed are those
of the individual poster and not the ABC. The ABC reserves the right to remove
offensive or inappropriate messages.
| From: furious ® |
20/01/2002
22:04:13
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| Subject: re: Balls and brass
monkeys... |
post id:
582587
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It was the brass monkey [the
things the balls sat on] that froze and shrank causing the balls to come
off
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| From: Mark ® |
20/01/2002
22:05:07
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| Subject: re: Balls and brass
monkeys... |
post id:
582589
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I think the monkey was a brass
square that contained the cannon balls and probably shrinks faster than
the iron cannon balls.
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| From: skyman |
20/01/2002
22:05:40
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| Subject: re: Balls and brass
monkeys... |
post id:
582590
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i have heard the same story, but
i was under the impression that the "brass monkey" was a brass frame used
to hold the balls, and that the lead canon balls shrink faster than the
brass holder and therefore the balls come off the brass
monkey.
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| From: Phobophilia |
20/01/2002
22:07:29
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| Subject: re: Balls and brass
monkeys... |
post id:
582591
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Aaaah, thanks guys, that explains
it.
I was of the impression that the PILE was called the brass
monkey. But if that was the name of the frame, then my question is
answered.
You'd think the whole "brass" bit would have clued me in,
wouldn't you? *duh*
Cheers,
Tim
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| From: Mark ® |
20/01/2002
22:09:35
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| Subject: re: Balls and brass
monkeys... |
post id:
582594
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Similar, I like the expression
'when my ship comes in' supposedly from when folk would invest money in a
venture to return spices etc from the new world. Until the ship returned
they did not know if they had a return on the
investment.
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| From: Mark ® |
20/01/2002
22:11:33
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| Subject: re: Balls and brass
monkeys... |
post id:
582596
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now why would a square brass
frame be called a monkey? latin maybe, or a corruption of another
word.
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| From: furious ® |
20/01/2002
22:12:45
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| Subject: re: Balls and brass
monkeys... |
post id:
582599
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I would have thought just
stacking heavy objects on an unstable platform [such as a ships deck] was
a hazardous pastime anyway. Why didnt they use crates or something. this
unstacking of cannonballs obviously happened quite a lot for it to pass
into everyday speach.
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| From: Phobophilia |
20/01/2002
22:17:33
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| Subject: re: Balls and brass
monkeys... |
post id:
582603
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I suppose it was easier to grab
them in a hurry from a pile than a crate. Just a guess,
though.
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| From: furious ® |
20/01/2002
22:19:08
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| Subject: re: Balls and brass
monkeys... |
post id:
582606
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A deliver system like in a
bowling alley would work better
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| From: Ian Allen (the
Lab) |
20/01/2002
22:38:48
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| Subject: re: Balls and brass
monkeys... |
post id:
582620
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Back in 1998 The Lab had a
competition going called "Brass Monkey". It was part of the "Ingrid on
Ice" Antarctic diary.
We used the Internet to track down a
definition of the expression - which we reproduced in the site as follows:
Brass Monkey
However,
a number of people wrote to us questioning this, and we ourselves now
doubt whether it is a true explanation. So for now, for us, the origin of
the term remains a mystery.
Ian
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| From: The Gallery |
20/01/2002
22:52:29
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| Subject: re: Balls and brass
monkeys... |
post id:
582624
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".......rested a device known as
a 'brass monkey', which consisted of
3 bowls made of brass and
brazed or welded together. Its
purpose......"
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| From: Alan™ ® |
20/01/2002
23:13:49
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| Subject: re: Balls and brass
monkeys... |
post id:
582630
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I agree Ian, it's an urban
legend. Try a goggle search where most of the links believe it to be an
urban legend or http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq107.htm"
try this sight
It is much more likely likely that
the term is derived from "freeze the tail off a brass monkey. The monkey
tail was an aiming device (sight) on the canon. I suspect that it was
manufactured from a soft metal like brass and if so it would have been
braised (sort of a cross between welding and soldering). Brass likely for
a application at sea. If the tail had been braised on, the difference
between the coefficients of expansion it is likely that the braise joint
joint would fail at low temperatures.
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| From: franz |
20/01/2002
23:21:53
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| Subject: re: Balls and brass
monkeys... |
post id:
582640
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I thought the brass monkey thing
was some type of early device for measuring ambient temperature.......that
freezing conditions presented some type of hazard to sailing ships...wet
sails freezing or something.
I thought the thing was designed for
giving warning of ambient temperatures reaching close to zero...that
something dropped out of something else at zero degrees....i have no idea
where i got this idea from
I'm thinking i probably dreamt it
up..
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| From: Terry Frankcombe
(Avatar) |
20/01/2002
23:24:39
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| Subject: re: Balls and brass
monkeys... |
post id:
582642
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A monkey was a type of brass
cannon. OED says so.
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| From: mildmanneredj ® |
21/01/2002
1:09:14
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| Subject: re: Balls and brass
monkeys... |
post id:
582705
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Throughout naval history, the
term "monkey" has many different naval related meanings: a small coastal
trading vessel, a wooden cask that carried grog, a marine steam
reciprocating engine, and others. "Monkey boat", "monkey jacket", "monkey
gaff", "monkey spars", "monkey pump", "monkey island", along with several
others, are all naval terms too.
"Monkey" has also been used
within an ordnance context. A "monkey" was a kind of gun or cannon
(usage dating to 1650). "Monkey tail" was a short hand spike, a lever
for aiming a carronade [short-sight iron cannon]. A "powder monkey" was
a boy who carried gun powder from the magazine to cannons and performed
other ordnance duties on a warship (usage dating to 1682)...
The
first recorded use of the term "brass monkey" appears to dates to 1857
when it was used in an apparently vulgar context by C.A. Abbey in his
book Before the Mast, where on page 108 it says "It would freeze the
tail off a brass monkey." ...
It has often been claimed that the
"brass monkey" was a holder or storage rack in which cannon balls (or
shot) were stacked on a ship. Supposedly when the "monkey" with its
stack of cannon ball became cold, the contraction of iron cannon balls
led to the balls falling through or off of the "monkey." This
explanation appears to be a legend of the sea without historical
justification. In actuality, ready service shot was kept on the gun or
spar decks in shot racks (also known as shot garlands in the Royal Navy)
which consisted of longitudinal wooden planks with holes bored into
them, into which round shot (cannon balls) were inserted for ready use
by the gun crew. ...
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq107.htm
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This forum is un-moderated. The views and opinions expressed are those of the individual
poster and not the ABC. The ABC reserves the right to remove offensive or
inappropriate messages.
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