| From: Larry Walton | 22/02/00
8:41:13 |
| Subject: The bite of the Blue ringed octapus | post id:
40863 |
| How does a blue ring occy use
it's posion. I live at Swansea on Lake Macquarie & dive (S.C.U.B.A.) under the bridge @ the lakes entrance. I see at least one every week & I get wet at least 3 times a week. The popular answer with the old blokes who fish is that they bite & then use a sucker to administer the toxin, but that doesn't seem practical. Also, is there an anti-venom? Any ideas? | |
| From: steve(primus) | 22/02/00
9:13:49 |
| Subject: re: The bite of the Blue ringed octapus | post id:
40864 |
| The saliva of the blue-ringed
octopus is highly venemous. They have a small beak at their mouth with
which they inflict the bite and the initial bite is often painless. The
saliva enters the wound at the time of the bite. Treatment is CPR and get the victim to hospital as soon as possible. As far as I know there is no antivenene but with proper treatment, victims usually survive. The Octopus is found around the Pacific from Japan to Australia. It is not aggressive and will not bite unless you attak it - like picking it up. If the rings are glowing blue, the octopus is agitated and dangerous. Best thing is to leave them alone and don't poke your fingers into holes where they might live. Anyone coming into contat with them regularly should learn CPR (but everyone should learn that anyway). | |
| From: MichaelT | 22/02/00
9:13:59 |
| Subject: re: The bite of the Blue ringed octapus | post id:
40865 |
| I have found the following
info: The octopus has a small beak at the junction of its eight arms, and rather than manufacturing ink, it makes poison in its salivary glands. The toxin closely resembles tetradotoxin (TTX) and its bite can produce a flaccid paralysis much quicker than eating puffer fish. The bite may be almost imperceptible, and many victims notice only a tiny drop of blood at the site. Bites are nearly always associated with handling the creature, as in draping it over the arm, hand or shoulder. The poison is neuromuscular and produces a muscular weakness and eventually respiratory paralysis. There is no antivenine, and there was mention on another site that they are able to spit poison. This seems possible when the above info is taken into account. Cheers, MichaelT | |
| From: Alan™ | 22/02/00
19:18:21 |
| Subject: re: The bite of the Blue ringed octapus | post id:
41082 |
| I've just had a look in my copy
of St John Australian First Aid and they recommend pressure immobilisation
(the same as a venomous snake bite) and EAR (mouth to mouth resuscitation)
as required. | |
| From: Michael Gunter | 22/02/00
23:06:45 |
| Subject: re: The bite of the Blue ringed octapus | post id:
41179 |
| EAR= "external artificial
respiration" or "emergency artificial respiration"? Quite similar treatment to dealing with your friend's heroin overdose: provide ventilatory support ONLY because the heart is probably beating just fine all by itself. The heroin user is unconscious, but the octopus victim may be fully conscious, so get somebody to talk to them and make it sound like you've saved many lives before with your expert, well-practiced technique! | |
| From: BRUCE D | 23/02/00
0:03:15 |
| Subject: re: The bite of the Blue ringed octapus | post id:
41200 |
Mike You are WRONG, the only treatment for a Blue Ring Octopus bite is CPR and EAR as required, anything less will kill the patient. When a Blue Ring Octopus bites you will have the following signs and Symptoms Progressive respiratory failure within 10 to 15 minutes Small pinless bite which may become red and swollen (looks like a blood blister) Numbness (initally around the mouth and neck) Nausea, Vomiting Difficuly swallowing Breathing difficulties Visual disturbances Inco-ordination Muscular paralysis Cessation of breathing Cessation of pulse The First Aid required is Apply EAR / CPR as required Wash the wound Pressure immobilisation (same as for a snake bite) Keep the patient still, quiet and ressured Monitor airway, breathing and pulse Medicial Aid Notes. EAR and CPR must be maintained until the patient begins to recover, which might take some hours. Also even thougth muscle paralysis may occur and the breathing and heart may of stopped the patient can still see and hear what is going around them. | |
| From: steve(primus) | 23/02/00
9:44:44 |
| Subject: re: The bite of the Blue ringed octapus | post id:
41223 |
| I understood EAR was expired air
resuscitation (often called mouth-to-mouth, or the kiss of
life). CPR is cardio-pulmonary resuscitation which is EAR coupled with heart compression by pressing on the sternum. | |
| From: michael c | 23/02/00
10:58:39 |
| Subject: re: The bite of the Blue ringed octapus | post id:
41240 |
| I'll just throw a couple of
things in here: -Michael Gunter is a fully qualified medical doctor so he should know what he is doing here as well ;-) -A fully qualified dive instructor told me the same thing as Michael G said, and added (as Bruce said) that you should be careful about what is said around the patient because they can probably hear what you are saying. Apparently they don't appreciate hearing people saying they are going to die. -I checked some references and they said that the blue-ringed octopus toxin has no cardiotoxicity. -No responsible giver of first-aid would neglect to monitor the pulse and give CPR if required, even if they knew it was a blue-ringed octopus bite. Cheers, Michael C J | |
| From: Lib | 23/02/00
11:41:58 |
| Subject: re: The bite of the Blue ringed octapus | post id:
41248 |
| I read Dr Struhan Sutherland's
(eminent researcher of toxins and venoms; worked for CSL and made first
antidote to funnel web spider venom) autobiography last year, but I can't
remember whether he advocated the use of a pressure bandage as in a snake
bite. My now probably outdated first aid manual says to use one, and it certainly wont do any harm, so pressure bandage, imobilisation and maintenance of breathing seem to be the go. I seem to remember that it is the paralysis of the intercostal muscles that is the main problem. I guess that any resulting cardio problems would be as a result of lack of O2 to the heart muscle. However, as I have no medical training, I could be completely wrong! Lib | |
| From: michael c | 23/02/00
11:55:00 |
| Subject: re: The bite of the Blue ringed octapus | post id:
41257 |
| Reminds me of something that
happened in the area a few years back. A local country hospital (I won't
name names) was treating a patient for a Common Brown Snake bite, a
pressure bandage had been applied and anti-venom given. The patient's
condition improved and stabilised so it was decided to remove the pressure
bandage. Of course the rest of the venom flowed into the bloodstream and
the patients condition degenerated, but guess what? They only had the one
vial of anti-venom which they had already used. The patient died in
transit while being air-lifted to the closest large hospital that had more
anti-venom. Michael C J | |
| From: Bruce D | 23/02/00
23:05:11 |
| Subject: re: The bite of the Blue ringed octapus | post id:
41455 |
If Micheal Gunter is a medical doctor then why is he using terms such as "external artificial respiration" or "emergency artificial respiration" When the correct medical terminology is "Expired Air Resuscitation" as stated by the Australian Resuscitation Council, who sets the standard on how EAR and CPR is done in Australia for all medical and emergency services in Australia. Bruce | |