| From: Andrew ® | 16/06/00
19:53:38 |
| Subject: Complimentary evolution | post id:
85675 |
| Hi all. This is something which
has been bugging me for a while now - how do complimentary things evolve,
especially things like sex organs. Think about it - evolution is supposed
to be random mutations which are favoured by environmental conditions, or
something similar (please correct me here, I'd like to know a better
definition) so how to things like complimentary sex organs develop? It's
hard to believe that things so perfectly adapted to each other as males
and females could evolve by chance . . . The same is true of things like
dolphins and bats and things - they use echolocation (navigating by
sound), and for this they need specialised mouths/other organs to make the
sound, specialised ears to hear the sound, specialised brains to correctly
interpret the returning sounds, and specialised bodies and lifestyles to
take advantage of all this . . . Tell me that comes about by
chance! | |
| From: Min-Zhao Lee (AFO) | 16/06/00
20:10:37 |
| Subject: re: Complimentary evolution | post id:
85686 |
| That all comes about by
chance. Seriously, though, I don't know exactly, but is it possible that dolphins, etc. had other features and those have been eliminated because they were unnecessary, or mutated versions of the actual use means other organs come into play for the echoes? NB. I am NOT Min-Zhao Lee (TRO). Just a fake using his id. This should make you register. | |
| From: FIREART ® | 16/06/00
20:22:11 |
| Subject: re: Complimentary evolution | post id:
85697 |
| "Tell me that comes about by
chance!" -Evolution has nothing to do with chance. Mutations are tried and tested which rules out the whole chance thing. ". The same is true of things like dolphins and bats and things - they use echolocation (navigating by sound), and for this they need specialized mouths/other organs to make the sound, specialized ears to hear the sound, specialized brains to correctly interpret the returning sounds, and specialized bodies and lifestyles to take advantage of all this" -Having a small ability to judge distances using echolocation could help with survival. We have a small ability to use it although it is rarely used unless we are blind. Imagine that we were living in a murky environment (where vision would not help us much) wouldn't it make sense that gradually those with a more developed or sophisticated echolocation system would start to survive better and therefore pass on their genes | |
| From: steve(primus) ® | 17/06/00
2:03:19 |
| Subject: re: Complimentary evolution | post id:
85989 |
| Andrew, try reading The Blind
Watchmaker or better still Climbing Mount Improbable by Richard
Dawkins. They should explain your problem. | |
| From: Sam O'Reilley | 17/06/00
10:57:10 |
| Subject: re: Complimentary evolution | post id:
86037 |
| The mutations are (generally)
random, but happen often and variably enough to produce lots of different
outcomes. The successful outcomes are not only those that enable the
individual to survive (the eye, for example) but also enable the
individual to produce another individual (the sex organs). And so, the
mechanism of procreation becomes streamlined (no less, and no less
interestingly- I think, than the eye). Mutation and selection for survival
capacity- simple as that (in Darwin's
theory). | |
| From: James Richmond (Avatar) | 17/06/00
11:39:17 |
| Subject: re: Complimentary evolution | post id:
86049 |
| The driving force behind natural
selection is "the environment". Organisms which are better adapted to
their environment will reproduce more successfully than those which are
less well adapted, and over time will come to dominate the gene
pool. Part of the environment is other creatures, including others of the same species with whom one may wish to mate. If you have sexual organs which are better adapted for increasing the chances of successful procreation, you will be more likely to pass the genes for these organs on to the next generation, and over time your useful sex organs will come to dominate the gene pool. The selection pressures in favour of having well matched sex organs between males and females are very strong, for obvious reasons. It's hard to believe that things so perfectly adapted to each other as males and females could evolve by chance . . . I wish I had a dollar for every time I've read this. The point of evolution is that things do not evolve "by chance". Chance is only part of the process. Natural selection is the other, equally important part. The same is true of things like dolphins and bats and things - they use echolocation (navigating by sound), and for this they need specialised mouths/other organs to make the sound, specialised ears to hear the sound, specialised brains to correctly interpret the returning sounds, and specialised bodies and lifestyles to take advantage of all this . . . Tell me that comes about by chance! It doesn't come about by chance, but by gradual accumulation of the necessary features - a process driven by natural selection. Having some minimal skill at echolocation, however rudimentary, is undoubtably better in survival terms than having no skill at all. The initial ability for basic echolocation would have developed over time, driven by natural selection, into the complex and extremely specialised ability we see in modern dolphins. JR | |
| From: Carmel ® | 19/06/00
10:54:47 |
| Subject: re: Complimentary evolution | post id:
86750 |
| Appologies if this is a double
post! Browser is freaking out on me! evolution is supposed to be random mutations which are favoured by environmental conditions, or something similar Well, I think most of your questions have been answered already, but I'd like to add to the recommended reading list 'River Out of Eden'. As for a better definition of evolution, I like to think of it as a random mutation that increases the organism to mate successfully. A successful mating is one that results in offspring that are able to produce children. In simpler terms, if a mutation allows a particular critter a better chance at being a Grandparent than the 'normal' gene, then evolution will select for it. In the case of male/female sex organs, obviously a complimentary pair of sex organs will increase your chance of becoming a parent and ultimately a grandparent. | |